Yes, this IS forward thinking legislation. The opposition is just presenting one more example of a privileged group wanting to hold on to that privilege without sharing access to equality.

Because we also have to deal with discrimination against trans people re jobs and yes housing etc. Wonder how independent would feel if he was told he wouldnt be hired because he was some minority.

come on Rare Independent (I'm an Indep also) You can do better.....

4:02 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Fear is a big issue. It has become a part of our everyday lives, but do we really want to live that way, fearing everyone who's different, wondering if someone is going to mug us on the street? Afraid to use a public bathroom (yes, little girl, it's not MY bathroom, it's every body's), because some unknown boogy-person may jump our kids? At some point we are going to have to use our heads and hearts and let our blind predudices go! Trans-gender doesn't = Freak. Homosexual doesn't = pervert. You should not = a closed-minded bigot! Remember? It's a FREE Country! Comm on sense will keep us free!

I don't mean to bug you but, since your claim is laws like this will allow men into women's room, try posting links to actual cases in which this happened.

None of the ones you cite are about men, pretending to be transgender women, to enter "personal and private" spaces in areas covered by gender identity anti-discrimination laws. In fact your argument is cementing the need to pass this law. But then, that's logic and baseless fear seems to rule your day....

You pass a law which excludes "personal and private spaces", you force men into the women's room, transgender men will be forced in there and THEN how will you tell them apart? Again, sorry, logic, I know. I know, my bad.

But then, that's not your concern now, is it? But whatever your concern is, I probably don't like it very much...

none of those people were trans people

and the bad people wwould do the same, trans people or no trans people in the country.

One has nothing to do with the other.

At what point can a transgender human being make the claim..or statement of being transgender? Is there a legal definition that does not discriminate?

Where ...along the transition... does it become legal ?

The only real definition of transgender is when someone's gender identity (the gender they feel) does not match their assigned sex (by organs) It's such a vague classification. There isn't really a way to "prove" anyone is transgender, it's basically however that person feels about themselves.

Well! By all means, a man who wants to use the lady's room should, by law, be required to wear a dress. That should take care of your problem.
A man who "feels like a woman" is not likely to be turned on by women or little girls in any way.

again this has nothing to do with trans people. stop equating them with rapist etc.

I think the man in England "who tried to take pics of women in a mall bathroom dressed as a manikin" is pretty clever. Just how does one dress a mall bathroom as a manikin?

Is montgomerycountymd.gov and the washington post site lying? I think NOT.
Man, 34, charged with rape in assault in Montgomery College bathroom
Thursday, January 28, 2010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/27/AR2010012704367.html
and
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/montgomery-rapist-sentenced-to-90-years/2011/07/15/gIQA1iM1GI_story.html

Police: Rape at Md. retirement home
11:10 PM ET, 12/ 7/2010
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-breaking-news/police-18-year-old-raped-at-re.html

Police Investigate and Arrest Suspect in Germantown Rape
8/19/2011
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Apps/Police/News/NA_details.asp?NaID=6078

He was at his personal business office which is on the same corner as his council office. People had to work so they made it for early morning. Frederick road is always congested and there were newspapers there as well as channel 11 and Fox 45 news.

same old same old....

the rights to demonize people who are different?

got nothing to do with gays btw. Or lifestyle

Think back to the sixties when the Blacks rioted to have the same rights as white people. They couldn't use any bathroom set aside for Whites. They were not welcome at the counters of any department store. They had to sit in the back of the bus, and God forbid, they should date or marry out of their own race! Change is needed. The only agenda is to be able to proudly walk down the street without fingers pointing and to have the same rights as everyone else. Some day the resistance will still be there from some pinheads, but by and large, no one will give difference a second thought. Change is necessary and will always be until we are all equal. Land of the free and home of the brave...We have a long way to go, but at least we're going.

thats exactly what it is - fearmongering. One of whose products is the vicious murders of trans people.

Like the endless list whose names were read at the hearings.

Someone listed the 'christian post": article - Some christians are anything but , eg in the past those who justified slavery as per the bible.

those who hated Jesus own people, the Jews.

those who opposed blacks marrying and same re inter-racial marriage.

the lsit goes on and on. Trans people are their latest victims.

No reports of problems in Baltimore Co.either... so why is the law needed?

You can do better than this Steve...lay some facts on us...

When is a transgender officially a transgender in the law Caroline??

I need any proof... none has been presented to date...

Please explain your logic here...

Good points... this law will not make a hill of beans difference....total waste of important time. How will this mess make life any better for the masses? It's discriminating by design.
Bad job Quirk..... best that you are capable of..understood.

My mother and sister lived their whole lives without using a public toilet. Those who fear the worst, should maybe do the same. When I was little, I learned to hold it until I got home. Now that I'm a Senior, I have to know the location of every bathroom on my route.

What is the exact reason that transgender human beings seek additional protection under the law? You have been very vocal about this bad law , but have not provided documentation to justify the making of a silly law that will NEVER be enforced fairly.
Quirk knew that these tax paying folks would be there but chose to be a coward and shoot from the hip after the fact. A sound leader with genuine conviction for his/her actions would not hide from a group of genuinely concerned citizens.
The fact that Quirk choose the low road here is a clear demonstration of just how effective the perceived protection will be.
Exactly when does this law play for transgenders..?... when they first think that they are different, when they feel different all the time, when they decide to wear clothing designed for the opposite sex, when they begin the transition by taking pills to change themselves or after they have completed all of the above and had a sex change operation? How does the law define transgender human beings in this Quirky bad proposal? Current equal protection laws are currently in force that protect equally, this law will have the potential to discriminate by it's very design.
Transgender's can surely do better for themselves than this.
Quirk is a coward and should have met with the 15...it's his job... he knew about this in advance and tried to stop it. The avoidance speaks to his character.
Please answer my questions Mark Patro.

"Buck" I do not believe this is your real name and because you are asking Tom to stand up and be authentic while you are hiding behind a pseudonym I will not respond to you. You call Tom a coward yet you seem to be hiding behind a fake name.

Mark, Another cop out statement.... Buck Harmon is my real name...55 yrs and counting. Check it out with Mark Shapiro, Reisterstown Patch.
Tom IS a coward, and in this case he is not doing the job that he was elected to do.
You are avoiding the true answer to my questions here...perhaps you and Quirk should hook up to see if these questions can be answered.

Please keep in mind that I have no problem with transgender human beings Mark, Just in experienced bad law makers without substance... please make it make sense.

Legislation with similar language has passed in 16 States, and in 160 smaller jurisdictions. Laws like this currently cover about half of the population of the United State. None of the horror that has been suggested by those who oppose this bill ever happens. And every time the "this law is not needed" argument is used it has failed. "Gender identity" legislation does have a positive impact on the trans community and it has no effect on the cis gender community other than it makes them uncomfortable.

Still no answers to my question.... The reason that I even care about this is because of broad overreach language without clear definition.
In THIS particular case, I grew up in Baltimore County, and would like some verifiable answers, to what I believe to be important questions. Very basic questions in fact.

Perhaps Mr.Quirk would care to answer my questions in his own words.....

This bill is about ending discrimination. At the current moment it is legal for an employer to say "I don't like transgender people. You are fired." This amounts to legal bigotry. This bill will end legal bigotry. At the current moment it is legal for an apartment rental property company to legally say, "OH, we don't want your kind here," and turn down an apartment rental applicant on that basis.

Most Conservatives are big on encouraging that each of us work and contribute to society. This bill will encourage people to seek employment and discourage the implementation of barriers to that effort. Trans people want to work and support themselves as much as you do. We all need to eat to survive and we all need shelter to protect our health. And because we all need to eat, we all need to use the bathroom. This bill will move us all in a direction of accepting the fact that we are all human beings and as such we all deserve respect. I am proud of Tom Quirk for saying to me, "this bill is long overdue."

This bill will pass and it will be a bipartisan YES vote in favor of passage. It is time to recognize that extremists on both side of the political spectrum are ruining the political process in this country. It is time we work together, and compromise to come to useful conclusions. And passing this bill will do that. I am also proud of David Marks efforts on this front. He does not have to vote in favor of this bill. He would likely have an easier time at getting reelected if he were to oppose this bill. But he is standing up and saying that no one should be discriminated against. We should finally realize that the bipartisan vote in favor of this legislation and the marriage equality legislation in Annapolis this year is finally proving that civil right is a non-partisan issue.

Mark, Take this quote

"Wow, Why must there always be battles between human beings? We are all human aren't we??...Stop the silly games and get on with education. Pointless bickering amounts to a lot of waste and no one really wins. Human equality is what this country is supposed to be about ~ isn't it? Liberty and Justice for ALL. " - Buck Harmon May 18,2011

Reasonable people ask questions to seek truth.

Unreasonable people ask questions to hide it.

http://eldersburg.patch.com/articles/carroll-county-commissioners-support-petition-to-stop-a-nightmare

Great find Jenna... please be sure to view all of my posts related to this matter..

Why on earth would he choose to ignore a gathering of citizens at his office then.
He should have sent them coffee and donuts with a statement if he couldn't show his face.

Monday was a holiday. His kids didn't have to go to school. Maybe he wanted to spend the day with them?

He was in the office Brandon... just his other office... intentional avoidance..

I would bet that no one would be able to name that since it isn't really public business. Unless that person decided to come forward and admit their status what business is it of yours and what difference does it make???

What difference does it make? Wow! The legislature is making this their business. It is just a simple question, do any of these legislators have transgendered people employed in their privately held business? If they believe it is just, and the population of transgendered people is as big as you beieve, wouldn't we assume that one or two of the legislators would have them working for them in their private businesses? I am just thinking statistically here.
This is not a "gotcha question." I have to believe that these forward thinking lawmakers do not need a law to do what they believe is the right thing.
If we can find some legislators would are doing this - great for them - they are walking the walk. But if we find not one legislator has taken the step to hire a transgendered person in their privately held business, I have to believe those folks in the movement have been played. And if this does pass, you have to put pressure on those people who voted "for" the legislation to make hiring transgender people in their private business a top priority - and hold them accountable.

That's nuts, just because someone believes in equal rights doesn't mean they must have someone working for them. It's possible they do and it's possible they don't the point is if they do it isn't the public's business unless that person chooses it to be. So if someone believes in equal rights does that mean they MUST have to have a white, black, gay, christian, man, woman, muslim, hispanic, and asian workers working for them or they are racist???

A transgender person has the right to privacy, especially in the climate of abject bigotry. Please take time and visit Transgenderdor dot org Read the stories of those murdered because they were "less than human".

Simply read the newspaper and look at all the murders of transgender people just last year alone in NorthEast DC, right on the border with Prince George's County.

Many wish to live an existence free of questioning their personage in respect whether they qualify for someone else's standards or are worthy of human dignity.

If a legislator had to have employed an African American in order to vote for The Civil Rights Act we would have has untold additional lynchings and murders just for trying to exercise the right to vote, to eat at a lunch counter, or to use a public bathroom. Yes, "Coloreds" as bigots referred to them, were going to rape your wives and daughters if we let them into our restrooms.

Sickening that this is still being questioned or that these "tactics" are still employed.

Ok, so to our collective knowledge, no politician in the state of Maryland has ever hired a transgender person and they have not signed a pledge that they will actively seek to hire them.
Mr. Quirk indicates the opposition is "nonsense." I would assume he means due diligence was done to make sure this bill is good for transgenders and the public both. What due diligence did he perform? Did he talk with business owners who have transgendered employees in the workplace? Did he discuss the amount of time that transgenders take off from work in relation to non transgenders? Did he discuss the insurance cost of transgender procedures, treatments and medicines that would increase insurance costs the other employees of the organization may need to pay? Did he discuss with business owners the cost of losing business or increasing business as a result of hiring transgenders? Did he talk with owners of apartment buildings any issues or concerns they may have?
If he did these things, the results would be wonderfull to hear and he could use these facts to support his position - and he may even change some minds.
Or was Mr. Quirk's looking for some signature legislation to put his name on and this was what he could find?
Interesting, when these questions are asked, the opposition uses the bigot card. But they are questions that I believe any prudent business person would raise.
What about the small business owner who gets slammed by this? What happens to them?

Since you are so hung up about who's working for who can you list me who works for all politicians?? I want to know race, sex, marital status, religious beliefs, ages, the whole nine yards!! Sound obsurd??? So does your comment! what difference does any of the following questions you ask make?? I mean really do we ask how much Jews miss work as apposed to Christians they do have more holidays so lets stop hiring Jews cause they might miss more work! What about employees with children as apposed to employees w/o children. We shouldn't hire the ones with children cause they might cost more medical wise since they need more people covered then a single person and lets not forget that their snot nose kids are always getting sick which means more doctor bills and more time missed from work so lets not hire them cause they will miss more time then a single person. And what about all those white people (like yourself) that are living in the stone ages and don't want to shop somewhere that a black or hispanic works so out go them too! And for the record since you obviously have your head up your *** there is a big difference between transgender and transsexual. Just because someone is transgender doesn't mean they are going to have any operations to become transsexual so as for as medical procedures they wouldn't have anything different then the normal person. And even if they did have a sex change it isn't covered under medical insurance it's all out of pocket.

Gina, just to summarize. To your knowledge, no Maryland elected official has ever hired a trans**** in their private business. And to your knowledge, you are unaware of any due diligence performed or questions asked by those proposing this. Don't shoot the messenger for bringing news that you don't want to hear.
It is interesting that members of the black clergy are very opposed to many of these initiatives also. I guess they are also bigots.
Not sure why you are so excited, I am sure it is going to pass. The big losers are the people of Baltimore County who have not been duped by their elected officials. They have no plan to get people working, but have to come up with something to keep their name out in the publie eye.
Also, I may or may not be "white." I believe the term "white" to be an offensive term. I prefer to use the term "clear."

What does you being white have to do with anything? I could careless what color you are. I don't believe I commented or insinuated that you were any color. When I said "like yourself" I wasn't saying you were white I was saying that you live in the stone ages just like all those white people that still believe blacks have no place in our society. In a nut shell it isn't anyone's business what someone's sexual preference and when they do pass the law in favor of transgenders your life will continue w/o skipping a beat.

County Council members are elected public servant officials first, during their term in office. His profession should never get in the way of solid public service. Using the term mob is not fair or accurate. Please provide some answers to questions that have been raised repeatedly.
"I think it's fear mongering and nonsense," he said. This statement is not acceptable when big questions remain unanswered ...a very bad job being done here.

15 people with genuine concerns about an elected official public servant doing a bad job deserve to be heard. If 15 people gather to have questions answered, and Quirk knows , That deep down inside he is doing a dumb thing, avoidance would be the instinctive reaction. If he felt confident in the endeavor, he would welcome the masses.
He chose avoidance.... there was no mob...if you've been there,done that, you must have REALLY been wrong.
Quirk has demonstrated a form of discrimination by discounting and ignoring the opinion and wishes of concerned citizens. The arrogance attached to an unwillingness to clearly communicate with those that do not agree with him, is not becoming of an elected official public servant. If he were my employee, I would simply fire him for this kind of bad behavior..

CSP - Nice work. But you have to assume this is going to pass. If you want change, you are going to need to mobilize the voters and create change. Need to be orgainzed but need to determine what you want to do. Can either try to get the law changed back or change the leadership. Changing leadership may be the way to go. Need to do this at the grass roots level, but you need to develop a plan.

I believe in common sense, although I don't see too much these days. Chrissy is but one misbehaving person and not the standard for all. I do have one question, though...How do we tell the difference between Transsexuals, Transvestites and cross-dressers? Maybe we should ask Security to pat them down at the rest room entrance. And what about women who feel they have a man trapped inside?
I'm being a little facetious here, but really....This "What if" stuff is a waste of time. Wait 'til a problem arises, then fix it.

Having common sense is like a punishment.....You always have to deal with those without it..

Don't hold your breath!

The inability to answer very basic questions that pertain to this bill speaks volumes to the integrity the went into creating this jiffy lube bill.

Celebrate the new jiffy lube law...yea...great thought....sit in a circle...

Count me in - I'm up for celebrating this bill and the hours old marriage bill passage, too. It is fabulous that so many are getting on-board with the idea that equality is an essential human right.